Okay, so the overwhelming majority of New testament scholars agree that the story of the Nativity of Jesus is a religious work of fiction. December 25th was celebrated long before the advent of Christianity as the day of the Winter Solstice, and was very much a pagan holiday until it was co-opted by the Church several centuries later. The pagan origins of the December 25th holiday are well known even among Christians, with some denominations even going as far as rejecting it wholesale specifically because of this.
So what’s new?
Well, an organisation called American Atheists has put up a huge billboard (pictured below) that features a nice warm and fuzzy message, based on what most of us already know about Christmas, for people in the New Jersey area.
Perfectly appropriate for this holiday season, wouldn’t you say?
Celebrate Reason.
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November 30, 2010 at 11:39 am
Chris
But James….
that poster is sadly, a wonderful advert for Christianity. (Typical Americans…) The traditional Nativity story of Three Kings, a wandering star, a donkey and a stable is all part of a non-biblical sentimental mythology that gets in the way of the key message. The bible narratives describe a God entering the confusions of human history as a vulnerable human being. Mary’s song is about the Mighty being brought down and the poor lifted up. And who gets the good news first? The ones shovelling shit at the bottom of the pile. I know Freethinkers don’t go for the ‘God’ hypothesis – but just supposing there was one, the actual Nativity narratives of Matthew and Luke are much more subversive than the Christmas cards would have you believe…
November 30, 2010 at 5:21 pm
James Onen
A billboard can mean anything to anybody, Chris, and this one is no exception. However, the people who put this one up seem to have a few goals in mind…
Goal number one has certainly worked in my case. I will be using “This Season, Celebrate Reason” as my holiday greeting. It’s such a catchy slogan; and it will send a clear message to anyone who hears it. I like it!
November 30, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Chris
Fair enough. But it’s just a parody of the other one that goes ‘Jesus is the Reason for the Season.’ (which I’ve always hated.) I just wish avowed atheists could create something a little more positive that doesn’t rely on rubbishing an opposing view to assert itself.
Oh.. and as for ‘You know it’s a myth’… I always thought a myth was a story that’s always true, because it contains symbolic truths about how people tick – which doesn’t really fit the Nativity. (Genesis, maybe.) Perhaps the poster people meant ‘Legend’ – as in, a fun story that never happened. But that’s American education for you…
December 1, 2010 at 10:26 am
James Onen
Now, now…
Give the atheists credit here, Chris. They are attacking beliefs and ideas, not people. Since when was attacking beliefs and ideas a bad thing, except in a theocracy?
Besides, it is New Testament historians themselves who have stated that the nativity story is a fabrication, so its not like American Atheists are making things up just to spite those who believe that fiction..
And the message on the billboard IS positive… “This Season, Celebrate Reason”
Sounds positive to me🙂
December 5, 2010 at 7:51 am
andrewpearle
What New Testament theologians have said the Nativity Story is a fabrication? I am surrounded by theologians and I have never once read nor heard of any one ever saying that. The billboard can say whatever they want, it doesn’t make it right though. They have the right to believe what they want, but deep down in every atheist they believe that there is a higher power that exists. Even Richard Dawkins admitted it.
December 5, 2010 at 11:15 am
James Onen
Andrew Pearle,
About theologians:
There are Mormon theologians who believe Jesus visited America…
There are Jehovah’s witness theologians who are certain Jesus never claimed to be divine…
Then there are conservative theologians in the US (and elsewhere) who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old, a woman conversed with a talking snake in a garden, and that that there was a global flood that destroyed all of humanity save for one family. Many other theologians disagree with this view, and consider the first 11 chapters of Genesis to be non-factual but rather metaphorical…
There are many theologians who do not believe that hell is a literal lake of fire, or that people will spend eternity there….
There are theologians who think even non-believers will go to heaven…
Theologians of all stripes believe all kids of strange things – many of them mutually contradictory and generally unfalsifiable.
So I don’t know what kind of theologians you are surrounded by, but maybe you need to do your research on what the consensus view of New Testament historians is regarding the historicity of the nativity story.
I contend that the nativity story is a myth – as is most of what else is in the bible and other holy books.
Happy Holidays🙂
December 7, 2010 at 6:01 am
Matt
…and I wish you could rely on your own statements to make your points instead of throwing in a lot of churlish, immaterial comments about “typical Americans” and “American education.”
Incidentally, I see nothing in any definition of the word “myth” that says they are “always true,” and entry number 3 plainly says “imaginary or unverifiable:”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myth
If this dictionary is too American for you, feel free to cross-check in the OED.
December 22, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Chris
Apologies for my rudeness, Matt – no excuses.
I just wish that the USA’s public education system included Religious Education (not Instruction) in its curriculum, to encourage children to think about what they believe, and be curious about the beliefs of others.
Regarding ‘Myth’ – I think I’m using JRR Tolkein’s personal definition. But you’re right – must go and check. This could be all word-play about angels dancing on pinheads, but my definition is about using symbolic language to describe universal truths, which I would argue is still useful. Beowulf is a legend. Creation stories are myths, explaining why things are.
Happy holidays
December 1, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Chris
True – although the ‘New Testament historians’ bit, needs the word ‘Some’ added at the beginning, and your initial post about the ‘Overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars’ is perhaps over-egging the pudding.
What interests me, is the degree to which, many people do not want to believe it… or do. Of course, for many, it’s a harking back to childhood memories, similar to the waiting-up for Santa Claus. For others, there seems to be a fervent wish to connect with a powerful sense of Goodness, Innocence and Hope … and ‘Reason’ (in the Enlightenment sense) doesn’t always provide that.
Did the story actually happen? It can’t be proved or disproved. But what it says, continues to fascinate. Do you have a favourite moment in the story?
December 5, 2010 at 12:19 pm
James Onen
Hi Chris,
I personally find the story horrific – particularly the whole thing with the slaughter of the innocents. According to the story, thousands of babies who were killed because Herod heard that Jesus was on the way. But why did ‘God’ have to make it so that thousands of babies had to die because of the arrival of Jesus? And if ‘God’ is omniscient surely he knew that this would happen even before those poor babies were even conceived! Was this his divine plan? If so, it is truly revolting to me.
Of course, as a child, you’re only taught about the baby in a manger stuff, the 3 wise men, the star, etc… and I suppose such imagery may ignite warm and fuzzy feelings in some people. I can recall such feelings as a child, and when I hear the occasional Christmas carol, some of those feelings do come back, and nostalgia sweeps over me….
But then as I grew older and began to read the bible, I started to see things differently. I mean, imagine all those mothers having to watch their babies being cut to pieces by Herod’s soldiers… the fact that all children are born into ‘sin’ because of the alleged mistakes of their ancestors… and that those who fail to find this story convincing (or those of other religions) will spend an eternity in hell…
This is some really sick stuff!
That fervent wish to want to connect to a sense of goodness is innate in all of us. It is a part of human nature. We are social animals, after all, and we have been hard wired through natural selection to seek companionship and kinship. The positive feelings associated with kinship are supposed to motivate us to seek those kinds of bonds, because they do aid in our survival, and increase the chances of our genes being propagated. Helping others feels good, and that’s why many people do it.
I do not need a religious narrative to help me understand this.
To those that believe that reason does not provide them with this sense of goodness, I can only say, that’s too bad.
December 22, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Chris
Understood. We all have a fervent wish for goodness. But the ‘Selfish Gene’ which might lead us to seek the welfare of the community can then logically lead into the destruction of other communities who do not share our genes. (Which I suppose is where King Herod comes in…) Genetic survival in itself only goes so far in explaining where our morality comes from. In the end, I agree with you that everyone has (as you say) a ‘hard-wired’ morality – and ‘natural selection’ would pre-dispose us towards trying to get on with our neighbours. But it sometimes goes horrifically wrong. Sometimes, there seems to be a self-destructive impulse at work in people that makes no real sense. And the Massacre revolts us because we know, deep in our bones, that it’s not the way things ought to be. How could a loving God allow that? I don’t know. But perhaps the newborn ‘King’ pointed to something different, more compassionate, and vulnerable.
Wich ever way you celebrate it – Happy Christmas.
December 23, 2010 at 11:51 am
James Onen
Happy Christmas to you too, Chris🙂