Richard Dawkins appeared as the featured guest on Al Jazeera’s social media-driven show "The Stream”. It aired on Wednesday, June 27th, 2012.
I feel honoured to have been invited to participate via Google+ Hangout.
The first question I asked Dawkins:
Research suggests that there is a correlation between things like insecurity, poverty, poor standards of living, lack of proper education, lack of proper healthcare, income inequality and other such socio-economic indicators…. vis-à-vis religiosity. It would seem that for as long as long as people live in desperate conditions, they will always be susceptible to irrational beliefs that promise to address their problems.
In a country like Uganda, where I live, looking at these indicators, we do poorly and this might partly explain why religiosity and other form of superstition persist, even when science has come a long way in providing explanations for a lot of things people attribute to the supernatural, such as sickness, and poverty.
So my question is… What are your thoughts on how one might go about telling a person to not go to a witchdoctor, or miracle healing crusade… when he’s illiterate, uneducated, impoverished, with there being no clinic in sight for 100 kilometres?
I ask this because it almost seems like for rationality to flourish, it requires that societies or individuals in those societies, to be relatively well off first, and not so desperate.
I have asked myself this question many times, given my experience with trying to promote critical thinking here in Kampala, Uganda.
People here mainly resort to quackery out of poverty and desperation. No matter how many times I try to explain how there is no evidence that witchcraft works, for as long as the witchdoctor is promising that person what I cannot give, then he is more likely to listen to the witchdoctor than me. It is also true that the quality of education is very poor – and that is even in cases where any form of education is at all available. I get the feeling that unless these socio-economic issues are resolved, communicating the need to think critically will fall on deaf ears.
We have, however, witnessed greater success among the middle-class, where there has been some interest in the issues we raise. Given that they don’t really need to go to witch-doctors (since they can afford to go to proper hospitals, and they have also been educated somewhat) they tend to be less prone to falling prey to the quacks, as compared to their upcountry counterparts.
Economic empowerment thus seems to be a highly significant factor in creating the conditions that allow rationality to flourish (I stand to be corrected, but I haven’t heard of a poor society that tended not to be superstitious at a general level). Sadly, it looks like its going to be a long while before we emerge out of poverty.
For the time being, we’re simply going to continue to make the facts about pseudoscience, witchcraft, alleged miracles and demonic possession available on this blog and the various platforms through which we express our views. There will surely be those that seek such information; its our duty to make sure its there for them to find.
And my second question for Dawkins:
Voltaire famously said “if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" When I look at the online atheist community today, I am reminded of Voltaire’s words.
While they may not believe in any gods, many atheists do seem to have their fair share of sacred cows, and in the defense of these sacred cows, will often use the same logical fallacies, and what have you.. that you often encounter when arguing with religious believers.
When it comes to dismantling creationism let’s say, they’re as rational as rational can get, discuss something related to feminism, and well, I think you know what happens.
So when you see this happening among a community of people that pride themselves as being rational – a community that you played a very big role in building, how do you feel? And what do you think is the way forward?
Unfortunately, because the show run out of time, Dawkins was not able to address this question. He did ask me to clarify what sacred cows I had in mind. I couldn’t do it then, so I’ll clarify now.
The sacred cow I had in mind was radical gender feminism.
I have keenly, and with dismay, been following the downward spiral the quality of critical thinking has taken within the online atheist community since the Elevatorgate fiasco – and the madness is showing no signs of abating, some it it brilliantly captured in this brilliant essay by Paula Kirby.
My second question aimed to get Dawkins’ thoughts on the way forward, in light of all this. The sacred cow, known as radical gender feminism, is destroying the online atheist community. To me, it is indistinguishable from religion, and is equally dogmatic – and not based on science or facts.
It would have been great to hear his response to this question.
7 comments
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July 14, 2012 at 7:37 am
themayan
They say in Africa God is bigger because things are so bad they need him more. I haven’t researched the poverty aspect yet, but the problem with these so call studies that correlate religion with crime is that they are always found in popular media articles. I have yet to find empirical evidence in peer review publications. In my own research I have found that some of the lowest crime rates were in countries where atheism is almost non existent.
Even in the past. E.g. Nagasaki Japan was once the Christian capital of Japan with a virtual zero crime rate. On the other hand if we look at countries that adopted “state atheism” such as what happen during the reign of terror in France two hundred years ago, and up until the nineteen sixties in south east Asia and everything in between, including Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China and 1945 Albania, we find overwhelming evidence of slaughter in the tens of millions including famine, forced labor, and the denial of basic human rights. Not to mention freedom of speech and expression which to me are even greater crimes.
July 15, 2012 at 9:05 am
Kambugu Aloysious
hey there,
mine is a question that has been bothering me for a long time.
Where is the physical location of heaven since astrronants have managed 2 discover the sun, moon, stars and the planets? How come they have never discovered heaven? Dont you think this whole thing about heaven is a lie?
I will be greatful 2 share with you.
Thanx
August 4, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Andrew
James, I Just saw you on THE STREAM debate on Atheism, your questions were FANTASTIC ! thanks very much for your contribution to the conversation.
August 18, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Elisabeth
Dear James,
What an asset you are to your country!
Given the evident bias of the women interviewers and the degree of attack and imbalance that Richard Dawkins had to endure, I really enjoyed watching his facial expression gradually change to one of pleasure as he listened to your thoughtful and probing question about the dilemmas you face. I am sure that Richard was disappointed that he wasn’t able to answer and discuss the points of your second question further.
I personally found your questions fascinating. I live in Australia. Getting some insight into the problems you are trying to address in your own country, makes me gain perspective on those problems that I am grappling with here.
You may be interested to know that complementary and alternative medicine, or CAM, which is largely non-scientific, is growing here. As you can imagine, unscrupulous people (the witchdoctor’s of the West?) post bogus claims on websites and, given the general public’s medical ignorance and at times their dissatisfaction with mainstream medicine, this is an increasing problem.
Interestingly, the source of the particular problem that I am trying to address, in the area of mental health and psychiatry, is largely caused by religion. The lack of critical thinking being taught given the increase in church-backed schools as a means to reduce government education costs, along with the Australia’s freedom of the press and penchant for sensationalism which the Church of Scientology gleefully takes advantage of.
So, you see, James, even we have ongoing problems although I concede that they are miniscule in comparisons to those you face in Uganda.
I wish you all the very best with your endeavours.
Kindest regards,
Lisa Walsh
September 9, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Jay
Hello, I realize that this was a while ago. I just watched this episode of the stream. I was doing a Google search looking for a follow up on your last question. Thank you for your well thought out questions.
Your blog has been bookmarked. I look forward to reading some of your articles.
October 13, 2012 at 3:00 am
Jojo
James after hearing that time couldn’t allow for the discussion to continue…his lips appear to say ‘OH MY GOD’ ……Ironic but loved this one.
July 21, 2013 at 5:59 pm
The Less Than 1%: How Uganda’s Atheists Are Fighting Back | Atheism Africa
[…] Onen notes that Uganda’s poverty “might partly explain why religiosity and other forms of superstition persist, even when science has come a long way in providing explanations for a lot of things people attribute to the supernatural, such as sickness and poverty.” He suggests that freethought can only genuinely flourish in societies that are already doing well, because of the impossibility of convincing impoverished and illiterate people with no clinic for 100 miles to abandon their belief in witchdoctors. […]