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Dear Believers in God,

You and I know that, the belief in the existence of God is not down to how many times he has showed up in his physical form or how often we have been able to communicate with him. The belief in God is down to a summation of various events, lessons and experiences that have led to the maintenance of the notion that there is a God after all. This however, does not take away the rather sad fact that there are many of us who have grown to believe that God exists, not out of our own freewill but because of circumstances. The trouble is not in the process through which one gets to believe that God exists but in the eventual refusal to actually validate the existence of God to oneself. Many of us believers have grown up believing God exists and we even appear to pray to him unaware that we are simply following in the footsteps of others and we are not exactly curving out our own reasons for belief.

It is all well and good that many of us believers have been blessed to grow up in God-fearing families with our parents teaching us the values of believing in and praying to God. However, it would be more beneficial if we made the personal realization and discovery that God does exists having set aside all traditional or enforced beliefs handed down to us from authorities and families.

Very many people claim to believe in God having been pushed by circumstances, history, acquaintances, the environment, troubles, hearsay and all sorts of reasons. Very few have actually taken the time to conceptualize and create a basis for their belief in God. If I believe in God because my father is a Church elder, then I may as well be regarded a non-believer because after all, my belief is channelled through and is dependant upon my father. In the event that he is no more or for some reason unavailable to keep holding my hand, my belief will be shaken or even shattered without a doubt. However, if my belief in God emerges from conclusions I have personally drawn and observations I have made on my own, my faith will probably be rock solid. True, my faith may and will often be put to test but the chances that I can weather the storm are higher if my faith is founded on principles that I personally visualize and not on principles that someone else set up for me.

It is my hope that believers in the existence of God (irrespective of their faiths i.e, Muslims, Orthodox, Protestants, Born Agains e.t.c) begin to have belief in God and defend their positions based on personal conclusions. Each person does have the ability to analyse the question of God’s existence on their own; after all, I believe God did not create us with powerful minds just to have these minds believe without questioning. Having belief that is independently rooted in some other people or authority can be very dangerous especially since others are susceptible to changing goal posts or even twisting issues to suit their own needs. This probably explains why some people use faith based arguments to front their desire for terrorism and other inhuman activities carried out in the name of God. Aside from the fact that it tarnishes one’s faith in the eyes of the rest of the world, it also creates a huge problem for such a believer in case they were asked to present a logical and well thought out argument for their belief in God. They would start scampering around looking for arguments previously presented by other people and this lends credence to the argument that they probably believe in a God they do not even know personally.

I may not be able provide physical evidence that God exists or to offer some sort of script documenting the conversations me and my God have had, however, I know well enough not to use my emotions and sentiments when arguing or debating with atheists. Besides, when I stand on my two feet and say I believe in the existence of God, I offer my argument based on what I have personally experienced or what I think is my reason for belief. I do not offer arguments based on what some other person or authority says. Every once in a while I may reference or quote someone else but overall, I offer my argument based on my own conclusion and not someone else’s conclusion on my behalf. This principle, I imagine, is what belief in God should be founded on because only then shall we be able to talk to atheists with level-headedness and only then shall we appreciate and cherish our own belief in God.

One of the problems that atheists tend to have with us believers (and I totally understand them here) is that many believers tend to argue as if we own exclusive rights to the deity that is God. Maybe we do, because after all, we are the custodians of the argument for the existence of God, are we not? However, many a time, our arguments are half baked, botched and extremely shallow. Sometimes I see or hear my fellow believers offering arguments to atheists and I almost hide my face in shame. We as believers are fond of making submissions with the anticipation that the other person should (must) understand and agree with our stand point right away and without much question. And this probably explains why atheists are quick to claim that many of us believers are arrogant, perpetually in denial and somewhat aloof. Many times, this degenerates into a worthless argument …

…more often than not, we even end up exchanging words that tend to feel like (and in many cases turn into) actual blows.

When holding an argument with an atheist, instead of conceding that we may be short on valid arguments at certain moments, we as believers instead go ahead to explode into a series of uncoordinated responses that often lead one to conclude that maybe, after all, the believer’s arguments are unworthy of audience.

I have had the honour of debating and arguing with several atheists about the question of the existence of God but one thing that I have noticed over time is that the more you present a calm, collected and well articulated argument, the better your chances of putting your point across (if any). I may not be able to make the atheist convert and start believing in the existence of God but I will give them reason to agree that maybe even as a believer, my thinking cap is not lost or misplaced. True, I am often offended that my God is being belittled and treated as some illusion but I understand that if someone does not believe in my God, they are likely to use the most demeaning words – that I know and try not to kill anyone over it. Therefore the chances that I will lose my temper are minimal because the key to holding a logical argument or debate is to allow oneself to understand the other person’s argument no matter how divergent their views may seem.

Over the years, there have been fundamental issues raised by both the atheists and theists pertaining to the question of the existence of God. And it is these fundamental issues that have given rise to continued debate between the atheists and theists. However on more occasions than I can remember, I have come across an atheist and a believer failing to respect each other and instead have their argument degenerate into some kind of argument about who is sharper or more intelligent than the other…

…its almost as if they are trying to see whose brain is more superior.

I therefore have two simple appeals to make to believers. The first and probably most important is that you ought to believe in God not because your parents pushed you to or because you studied in a school that was run by believers and so the belief in God was taught to you by teachers. Belief in God is supposed to be felt, experienced and lived voluntarily and not taught or enforced. It may be true that freethinking calls for one to be inclined to forms one’s own opinions rather than depend upon authority, especially about social and religious issues; exhibiting boldness of speculation. However I believe this should work for the believer as well. The traditional freethinker will probably question my application of freethinking to the belief in God but I am insistent that the two can and should be married together because only then will believers start to be more logical and in turn benefit from their belief in God.

My second and final appeal is that when we are arguing with atheists or even doing the bare minimums of spreading the word, let us desist from condemning the non-believers. Let us try to keep calm heads and offer arguments with level headedness. That way, not only shall we attempt to live by example, we shall also end up appearing organised and well grounded in our belief (never mind the fact that we may have our own personal doubts and insufficiencies). Do not lose your temper as you talk about or put up a case for your belief in God …

…If you do not get a grip on your anger and temper, you could wind up turning into a savage warrior.

I end this letter with a quote from one of my favourite playwrights of all time; a namesake as well – George Bernard Shaw

The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it ~ George Bernard Shaw

Chew on that fellow theists; otherwise, God Bless all of you.

Yours in belief,


a.k.a Beewol

The Talkative Rocker

The Talkative Rocker is a member of the Freethought Kampala Facebook group. He is a Christian.

[Originally posted at: The WORKZINE]

magic elephant

Let’s say I tell you that I believe in the existence of the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant.

You ask me to define this being, and I tell you that it is…

"…an elephant who was not created by anything and whose non-existence is logically impossible".

Then you ask me how it is that I know anything about the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant. I respond:

“It communicates with me through the voice of my inner spirit, and tells me all about itself”

Now, when you ask me who made this Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant, or how it came to exist, I say to you:

"To ask what made the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant is a nonsense question. I already told you that the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant is an elephant who was not created and whose non-existence is logically impossible. To ask what made the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant demonstrates that you don’t understand what the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant is! If it had to be created, then it would not be the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant. Duh!"

At first glance, it seems as if I would be justified in raising such an objection. If I DEFINE this being as one that was not created, and whose non existence is logically impossible, then to ask where it came from, what created it, or to even ask for evidence of its existence seems meaningless and self-refuting.

But I’m sure this won’t convince you that the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant exists. Will it? And if not, why not?


It is because I have merely defined the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant into existence i.e. I have implied its necessary existence in its definition only, and not demonstrated it. Such an approach is flawed because it can be used to justify belief in the existence all manner of imaginary things, such as mermaids, unicorns, goblins, our dear Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant…

…and gods.

Indeed, the answers I gave in response to questions raised about the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant are the kinds of answers many believers give in response to similar questions about the existence of a ‘God’. But if those answers are not sufficient to render a belief in the existence of the Super Invisible Immaterial Dancing Elephant reasonable, there is not reason why we should assume they hold as reasons to believe in the existence of a ‘God’ either.

See also:

god This blog post is part of the ‘God’ series.The ‘God’ series will be a collection of blog posts dedicated specifically to addressing the ‘God’ question. The most popular philosophical arguments put forward by believers to argue for the existence of ‘God’ will be critically examined, in addition to arguments for why its most likely that ‘God’ does not exist.


This post will examine the most popular form this argument takes, as is presented in debates between Christian apologists, and atheists.

Christian apologist and philosopher William Lane Craig summarises the moral argument as follows, in a debate with atheist Ingmar Persson:

If God does not exist, then objective moral values do not exist. Many theists and atheists alike concur on this point. For example, Michael Ruse, a Canadian philosopher of science explains:

Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth …. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, [ethics] is illusory. I appreciate that when somebody says, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves, … Nevertheless, … such reference is truly without foundation, Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, and any deeper meaning is illusory ….

Friedrich Nietzsche, the great atheist of the last century who proclaimed the death of God, understood that the death of God meant the destruction of all meaning and value in life. I think that Friedrich Nietzsche was right.

But we’ve got to be very careful here. The question here is not: Must we believe in God in order to live a moral life? I’m not claiming that we must. Nor is the question: Can we recognize objective moral values without believing in God? I certainly think that we can.

Rather the question is: If God does not exist, do objective moral values exist?

Like Ruse, I just don’t see any reason to think that in the absence of God the morality evolved by Homo sapiens is objective. After all, if there is no God, then what’s so special about human beings? They’re just accidental by-products of nature which have evolved relatively recently on an infinitesimal speck of dust called the planet Earth, lost somewhere in a hostile and mindless universe, and which are doomed to perish individually and collectively in a relatively short time. On the atheistic view, some action, say rape, may not be socially advantageous and so in the course of human development has become taboo.

But that does absolutely nothing to prove that rape is really morally wrong. On the atheistic view, there’s nothing really wrong with your raping someone. And thus without God there is no absolute right and wrong which imposes itself on our conscience.

But the problem is that objective values do exist, and deep down I think we all know it. There is no more reason to deny the objective reality of moral values than the objective reality of the physical world. Actions like rape, cruelty, torture, and child-abuse aren’t just socially unacceptable behavior. These are moral abominations. Some things are really wrong. Similarly, love, equality and generosity are really good. Thus we can summarize this third consideration as follows:

  • If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
  • Objective values do exist.
  • Therefore, God exists.
Let us examine the premises of this argument:

PREMISE 1: If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist

Objective moral values are moral values that do not depend on social custom or individual acceptance. It is simply a fact of the matter as to whether any given action is morally permissible or impermissible.

The claim by Christian apologists is that for moral values to be objective they have to be grounded outside of subjective human emotions. There has to be an external standard against which all actions are evaluated, and they say this standard lies within ‘God’. So without ‘God’ grounding these moral values, according to champions of the moral argument, they cannot be objective – and thus one would have no basis for declaring an action objectively right, or objectively wrong. Without ‘God’, they say, right and wrong amount to nothing more than personal opinions.

The problem with this view is that it is not established how ‘God’ grounds objective moral values, and any attempt to do so raises the immediate question:

“Does ‘God’ command the good because it is good, or is it good because it is commanded by ‘God’?”

This is known as the Euthyphro Dilemma.

  • If ‘God’ commands the good, because it is good, it implies that the objective standard for what is good does not rest in ‘God’, but in ‘good’ itself, or some other external standard or ‘good’.
  • If on the other hand, a good is good because ‘God’ merely declares it so, then ‘good’ is arbitrary, and subjective (to ‘God’) rather than objective. This understanding of good is called Divine Command Theory – where good is whatever God says is good. This is problematic for believers because if ‘God’ were to decree that murder and theft are good, would that make it so? Most Christians are reluctant to go down this slippery slope. It also becomes problematic to refer to ‘God’ as a good god, if good is whatever ‘God’ willed on a whim. The term ‘good’ thus loses any real meaning.

This dilemma thus poses a problem to any notion of objective moral values being grounded in ‘God’.

In order to escape from this problem, theologians and Christian philosophers have postulated instead that objective moral values are actually a reflection of the nature of ‘God’ – thus, with this understanding, ‘God’ is still the objective standard for moral values, and the resultant moral values are not subjective, because ‘goodness’ is an essential property of the nature of ‘God’.

This postulation, unfortunately, does not rescue them from the dilemma, because the same question can also be posed to the nature of ‘God’ which they think objective moral values are a reflection of:

“Is God’s essential nature good because it is good,  or is God’s essential nature good simply because good is defined as whatever God’s essential nature is?”


  • If God’s essential nature is good, because it is good, it implies that the objective standard for what is good does not rest in God’s essential nature, but in good itself, or some other external standard of ‘good’.
  • If on the other hand, God’s essential nature is good because good is whatever God’s essential nature is, then ‘good’ is subjective rather than objective. This is because if God’s essential nature was such that he considered rape to be a ‘good’, and it is true that objective moral values are grounded in ‘God’, then rape would be objectively morally good.
  • It also does not follow that just because an entity has an essential nature, that concepts derived from it, or dependant upon it, are objective. As a human being, my genetic make-up imbues me with predispositions towards all kinds of feelings, impulses, likes and dislikes – this is my nature. But this does not mean that the moral impulses that arise from my genetically determined predispositions represent intrinsic truths about reality. No. They simply represent my subjective feelings on an issue. Therefore, even if it were true that ‘God’ exists, and has a nature, and that nature was synonymous with ‘goodness’ – any moral values derived from ‘God’ would still be subjective. So even if it could be established that objective moral values do exist, they could not possibly be dependant upon ‘God’.

In response, apologists usually invoke the ontological argument to try and show that ‘God’ being maximally great is necessarily morally perfect. They then conclude that God’s nature is good neither because of the way ‘He’ happens to be nor because of any reference to an external standard of goodness. Unfortunately for the apologist, this defense of the first premise creates a whole new problem altogether – because it presupposes that the ontological argument for the existence of ‘God’ is sound. Notice that if it does so, it means that the first premise presupposes that ‘God’ exists. In other words, using this defense, the first premise of the Moral Argument can only be true if it presupposes its conclusion – rendering the argument circular, thus invalid.

Non-theistic models for objective morality:

Apologists defending this first premise also have the task of demonstrating that it is impossible for a non-theistic model of moral realism to account for objective moral values. This is difficult, because even if it were the case that all currently existing non-theistic models of establishing objective moral values fail, it does not follow that it is impossible for one to do so. I could just mean none have been formulated as yet. To try to argue that it is impossible for a non-theistic model of ethics to account for objective moral values (as the first premise suggests), the apologist would have to either demonstrate that a logical contradiction would necessarily entail from any and all possible non-theistic account(s) of objective moral values (which they have not), or demonstrate that they (the apologists) have omniscience (which they don’t). 

The first premise of the moral argument remains unsubstantiated, and therefore, fails.

PREMISE 2: Objective moral values do exist

Can moral values be objective? Can there be moral values that do not depend on social custom or individual acceptance? Proponents of the moral argument, including Craig do not offer any arguments to demonstrate that objective moral values actually exist. To quote Craig again:

But the problem is that objective values do exist, and deep down I think we all know it. There is no more reason to deny the objective reality of moral values than the objective reality of the physical world. Actions like rape, cruelty, torture, and child-abuse aren’t just socially unacceptable behavior. These are moral abominations. Some things are really wrong. Similarly, love, equality and generosity are really good.

Examples of rape and child abuse are introduced in order to force the atheist to admit that under no circumstances would he consider those actions right – no matter what the context. After the atheist does so, an apologist will use this as evidence that even the atheist concedes that objective moral values exist, thereby confirming his second premise.

Objective moral values – Non-theistic:

Indeed, there are many atheists (and even theists) who argue for some form of non-theistic system for establishing objective moral values.

Many of these systems adopt a utilitarian approach, in which they basically argue moral values can be determined by evaluating to what degree an action maximises the well being of individuals while minimizing unnecessary harm (or satisfies the most number of desires whilst thwarting the least number of the same). Justifiably, critics will ask what would happen if it were the case that the entire society thought that rape was good – or that raping a woman maximised the desires of the majority. Using the atheist’s own utilitarian argument, in this particular example, it would imply that it is objectively morally good for women to be raped. Thus, basing objective morality on the degree to which that action maximised the wellbeing (or fulfilled the most desires) of the most individuals puts the atheist in an awkward position of having to endorse atrocities, should the majority find it agreeable.

And that’s just one problem with this approach to objective moral values.

The other problem is that morality under this system would still end up being subjective, because any measure of what action maximises the well-being of the majority would be nothing more than an aggregate total of individuals’ subjective reports on the degree of well-being that particular action has yielded.

Is the position of the theistic moral objectivist any better, with regards to objective moral values?


Objective moral values – Theistic:

An apologist who insists on claiming that objective moral values come from ‘God’ needs to explain why Christians hold widely divergent views on many moral issues – such as divorce, abortion, homosexuality, hip-hop music, tithing, etc. If objective moral values do exist, there must be a single objectively moral position on all these issues, yet there are many divisions among Christians regarding what is objectively moral and what is not. On what basis are Christians supposed to decide what the objective moral truth is when there are several competing alleged objective moral values among Christians?

The proponent of each side will claim their viewpoint is consistent with the objectively moral nature of ‘God’ while providing no objective criteria by which we can determine that contrary view points do not qualify as  consistent with the objectively moral nature of ‘God’. Basically, under theism, there exists no framework for determining what exactly objective moral values are, or if they exist at all.

Whenever this objection is raised, apologists like Craig will often argue that this objection addresses moral epistemology, rather than moral ontology, which the moral argument seeks to address. But this is ridiculous. If they want to claim that ‘God’ is the source of objective moral values, then it´should be the case that there´is a reliable way for determining what those values actually are. They do not offer any besides just asserting:

..objective values do exist, and deep down I think we all know it.

The problem with this line of reasoning should be transparent. Adolf Hitler knew ‘deep down’ he was doing something objectively morally right.

Adolf Hitler

So because he knew it ‘deep down’, would apologists accept that Hitler’s actions during World War II were objectively morally right? It is doubtful they would – but that is the logical consequence of the line of evidence they are offering for determining what objective moral values are.

The Bible / Holy Scriptures:

The bible is not a very useful guide for determining objective morality either.

The Old Testament is full of horrific accounts of ‘God’ ordering the Israelites to massacre inhabitants of land they were promised by ‘God’ (such accounts are numerous). If was objectively morally right for the Israelites to exterminate whole tribes and nations as they wandered through the wilderness because they were acting on the orders of ‘God’, how can Christians accuse today’s Islamic suicide bombers of doing something objectively morally wrong if they killed ‘infidels’ also under instruction of their ‘God’?

Violence in the name of 'God'As you can see, if one posits the existence of objective moral values, and claims that they are grounded in ‘God’ – a religious radical would be justified in committing any and all manner of horrors and be able to claim that it is objectively morally good, as long as he or she says his ‘God’ mandates it. After all, the apologist has not provided ANY framework for establishing what objective moral values are (besides reliance on subjective personal intuitions). Of course, once this impasse ensues, adherents of various faiths will refer to their scriptures and attempt to argue for a particular interpretation of scripture that they think is consistent with the views they hold regarding the alleged objectively moral nature of the action in question. Once this happens, however, whatever morality they advocate will be SUBJECTIVE – because it will be based upon a personal interpretation of that scripture which they will be unable to ascertain as objectively true.

Thus, BOTH the believer and atheist who posits the existence of objective moral values – if they are to be consistent – would find themselves unable provide an objective basis for denouncing horrific acts of violence with the criteria they have offered for determining what objective values are. We have seen that any basis they offer will end up being SUBJECTIVE in nature.

There is insufficient evidence to demonstrate that objective moral values do exist. The second premise of the moral argument, therefore, fails.


Neither the first premise, nor the second premise, have been demonstrated to be true. The Moral Argument for the existence of ‘God’ is therefore unsound. If apologists try to invoke the ontological argument in defense of the first premise, then the first premise will inadvertently presuppose the conclusion, rendering the Moral Argument invalid.

The argument therefore fails as a proof for the existence of ‘God’.

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